you have to raise taxes on the middle class, as bill clinton says, it's simple math. >> they'll say, though, that you can do that. there are other studies. i know the one to which you're referring. >> prove t erin, prove it. >> you can't prove either side is all i'm saying. one thing that's not true is the $5 trillion tax cut. >> i disagree with you. you can prove it. they're counting entirely on economic growth to pay forry tax cut, which is an interesting theory. that's what george bush did. look how that turned out. >> they're saying closing loopholes and economic growth, both. i understand you disagree with t i'm making the point of what you're saying. >> that still leaves you at least $1 trillion short. the math does not work with what they're saying. and they won't name those deductions. not a single deduction that they will close because they know it's bad for their politics. at the end of the day, this is the center. this is the core of mitt romney's economic policy. last night, he walked away from it, said he didn't have a $5 trillion tax cut. he does. that's what lowering t